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Article: My Fat Body is Not Your Fetish


kastemel

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The person who wrote the article seems to believe that sexuality is the sort of thing which ought to be incited by something more than the physical qualities of another individual. This notion is absurd. Sexual appetites are the sort of thing which can be excited by qualities which are dependent on the individual (their "autonomy," as they put it), but they can certainly can be excited by qualities which are completely independent of someones autonomy, and there is nothing wrong with this. There is nothing reprehensible about being a mere means to someones end when it doesn't involve anything real about you; your "identity" in someone else's mind is their fabrication of you and is not really your "identity," nor something which belongs to you, nor indicative of who you are whatsoever. The image that other people have of you is an idea in their own head, and no one but the person having that thought can own it.

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What kills me though, is that it is likely that the author thinks that it is okay for a person who does like her and respect her autonomy and whom she reciprocates such feelings for (on a sexual level, mutually), that it is okay for this person to "fetishise" and fantasize about the physical qualities of her body in a purely erotic way, so long as it was coupled with excited thoughts which are based on her autonomy. If this is the case, then the article would be total hypocritical to her own views.

And if that's not the case, then the author would think it wrong for someone who does like her and respect her autonomy and whom she reciprocates such feelings for (on a sexual level, mutually), that it would not be okay for that person to find them self, for reasons independent of her autonomy, that it would be degrading for said person to even find the authors physical qualities pleasant on an independent level. If this is the case, then the purely physical side of sexuality is undesirable or improper. If this is the case, then the author holds a view which is completely absurd.

Therefore, the author is either a hypocrite, or holds an absurd view.

I normally do not even post on this site, but I had to analyze it out just to make sure I didn't miss something. Interesting read for sure though, definitely gives you something to think about.

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I completely disagree with this woman. If she truly understood fetishes she would know WE DON'T CHOOSE THEM. The people that believe we do are the same ignorant idiots who believe gays choose to be. She needs to get over herself and real with the fact people are going to look at her one way or another. She should move to a remote area and become a hermit to spare the rest of society her whining.

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Guest primitive

The reason this was taken so negatively, again, is because ultimately you are bringing a generalization about FA men into a realm which is a safe place for people to explore that fantasy. Especially when these people already receive criticism about their preferences. You already said that she knows there are people who do it consensually, and this audience does their fantasies consensually. You're ultimately talking to what could be the wrong crowd as far as discussing it goes.

Another reason is that most people here understand how to act towards women, and by posting this article and making the broad claim that we should change our thinking, you're essentially saying that it is wrong for this community to be as it is. Especially again, where plenty of individuals here know that women are more than their fat here, especially on curvage.

It sounds like this person desperately wants to control what goes on in the minds of other people. You can't control what other people think, and nor should you want to. Everyone on the planet will be sexualized by someone at some point. Get over it. You are the one with the problem. Not only that, but they have a serious lack of understanding of fetishes. Despite what the author claims, they are fetish negative.

Good luck being in a relationship with someone who doesn't like your body.

These two statements sum up my thinking on this pretty well. As someone who pretty regularly gets accused of "white knighting" on this forum, it should be clear that I am often disgusted by the behavior of some posters on this forum in their entitled demands towards the women posting pictures and videos at no charge. But as Ayumi said, I also recognize that this is the minority of posters here. Most understand how to talk to women, and manage to act no creepier in public than anyone else.

This woman, however, is fucking nuts. As Archaic said, she is most certainly suggesting that my fantasies, which exist entirely in my mind, are wrong, and that my right to think whatever I want is negated by her being "skeeved out" by men who are attracted to her. It's prudish and mindlessly self-important, and, as Ayumi said, it just goes against human nature. People sexualize other people. Everyone has done it, and everyone has had it done to them.

Her entire article hinges on this straw-man argument:

Because, uh, what it tells me is that you’re not interested in who I am as an individual.

Bull. Fucking. Shit. As Archaic said, these are not mutually exclusive. More importantly, the idea that someone would want to be around you for more than a one-night stand due to ONLY being attracted to her body is insane. There have been many women I've dated who I found extremely attractive, but once I get to know them better and find that we don't have enough in common, I end it. This is pretty much how dating works for anyone, fetish or not.

From what it sounds like, this woman is clearly conflicted about her own body. This is obvious when you read the three paragraph preamble before she gets to the damn point (don't bury the lede), where she basically complains about how the rest of society views her as "gross." Essentially, she is grossed out by fat fetishists because she can't find herself attractive. Clearly, she needs to either accept her body and be comfortable with the idea of someone going against what she and the rest of society consider normal and attractive, or she needs to go to the damn gym.

If not that, she needs to stop trying to regulate how people think just because the idea of someone finding her attractive is weird to her. I'll be attracted to whomever I want, thank you very much.

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What it comes down to really is "where is the line?" The lady who wrote the original piece is clearly not comfortable with either A) the idea that people find her sexy just because she is fat, or B) that people are only interested in her as an object they can use then throw away like any empty bottle.

What she is asking is essentially to not be fantasised about for simply her appearance, and she doesn't want people approaching her just because she's attractive due to an attribute she has. And she has every right to be annoyed when people approach her only interested in the fact that she is fat, not in the fact that she is a person.

But at the same time, she wants essentially to not be objectified at all. She doesn't want to be found attractive for her appearance, especially when she's obviously not currently happy with her appearance. While some people are happy to find that others think they're pretty when they themselves think it, there is a percentage of people who will take that fact and turn it negatively. It goes from "You think I'm pretty, but I thought I was ugly" to "You think I'm pretty but I want to not look like this, so if you're only with me for that it'll end as soon as I change and stop being what you think of as pretty". The author is trying to tell the audience that their personal preference on appearances should not b what makes them want to sleep with her.

To her credit, that is a very valid point, especially for long term commitments. You cannot always be in a happy and fulfilling relationship with someone just because of how they look. Yes, sometimes two people are attracted to each other, and then find their personalities are perfect for each other, but many times a relationship built purely on how attractive two people find each other quickly falls apart. The woman who wrote this article is clearly after a long term relationship, and if her long term goals is to lose weight, then she doesn't want to be dating someone who's only with her to see how big she can become. It'd be a hollow relationship, and not one she'd benefit from at all.

However, her request to never be fantasised about or admired is a bit of an impossibility. Quite often both men and women have seen someone attractive and have already mental checked them out before their conscious brain has even registered seeing them. Humans are biologically programmed to be looking for attractive people, whether we're aware we're doing it or not.

The issue however, is again "where is the line?" And to her, the line is a logical "I do not wish to be admired for my appearance, and do no wish to be approached if you're only into my looks". Bu this is not a line she can actually control (as much as she may wish). At the end of the day, you have no idea what other people are thinking, I'm sure we've all had one person fancy us and been completely oblivious to it, and have also been on the receiving end of that. What this lady wants is to nip that in the bud, and only be fancied by those she herself fancies.

In her head, she probably has an ideal body shape that she wishes to be, and things that she wishes to be found attractive. In much the same way that some feedees find being admired for they're gain to be a turn on, this woman probably has a turn on for being admired for something else, or has no fetish but wants to be just with someone who genuinely loves her.

It's a hard concept for men (and I say this as a man) to understand sometimes. As a gender who favours visual stimulus for porn (women tend to be more into imagining something happening to them, instead of seeing someone hot do hot looking things - at least generally, exceptions on both sides) the idea of being seen as attractive for how you look is often engrained. Many men assume women want a good looking man, whereas that's often not the case, and many women choose guys based on their personalities, and not just how they look. If it was all 100% based on looks, there would be no flirting, no chatting up, just one person saying to another "I think you're pretty enough to have sex with, do you think the same?"

I'd guess, judging by what she writes, that she has had some unfortunate experience with some FA's in the past, something that has added to her negative self worth. And it is fair to say that, like with all fetishes, sub-fetishes, and even mainstream dating in general, there are some selfish people who do see you as only an object they can use and throw away.This woman has obviously been the butt of several jokes from non-FA's as well, which has almost certainly added to her mental image that fat can't be attractive, and thus she feels unattractive for her weight, and has grown to believe that those who do find fat is attractive are freaks.

Yes, she is very dismissive of the FA community, and tars us all with the same "only in it for the weight gain" brush, as someone with limited exposure to any kind of fetish would be, and has probably been put off further by some of the comments she's heard. As much as we tend to use certain words as phrases as compliments, to someone not used to them they do sound insulting "Look at that big fat belly of yours" may sound enthusiastic, but to someone who's used to a culture where fat is ugly, that's an insult.

The woman in this blog has obviously had a tough time with being fat, and doesn't wish to be reminded of the fact that she is fat. Hence even having a one night stand with someone who's only interested in her because she is fat is a kick in the teeth. At best, what she wants is to be thought of as sexy for attributes unique to her, such as how her eyes look, the sound of her voice, the way she walks. Telling hr she's sexy because she is fat would b like saying to a man "You have testicles, therefore I think you're really sexy." Yes, it's nice being told your sexy, but it's not for a trait that's specific to you alone, and is essentially being told "you met my standards" not "I'd pick you out of a bunch of similar looking people."

And that's maybe something worth remembering, particularly if we are complimenting weight. Sure, you can tell someone "man you're big", but it's not something that's unique to them, and isn't so much a compliment as a description. Don't say "You've got such a large belly" say "I love the way you're belly feels to rub, it's so soft". It's much the same sort of sentence, but the slight change makes it more personal.

But ultimately, what it comes down to is, as I've said, she's not happy in her own body. And since she can't see herself as attractive, she doesn't like that other people do. Yes, she probably would benefit by looking at the community further than just idiot comments of "OMG fatness, I wanna bang you!" but at the same time she simply needs to either accept her body and that some people will find it sexy, or change her body to one she's happy with.

I kinda went off on a tangent there. Good first post...

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Just checking to see that you know that isn't a real news report.

Also, I'm not sure this forum is the best place for this sort of discussion so long as Candids Board is still, unfortunately, a thing.

"Omg this," as they say. I've been deliberately avoiding that board for so long I'd literally forgotten it existed.

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Sorry Ayumi, you're right, you also mentioned partialism. I forgot multiple people had brought that up. I promise I'm not ignoring you. Also, my profile doesn't show it, but I've been around this forum for the better part of ten years, back in the Fat Celebs days, but I haven't posted much since the last wipe. I appreciate that as a mod and an active member you want to defend this place and maintain it as a safe space. I admit, I brought my biases with me to this topic, and sometimes I worry this is too safe a space and too much dangerous behavior is allowed here. There have been calls lately to rein it in, and I guess me posting this article grew naturally from that.

However, her request to never be fantasised about or admired is a bit of an impossibility.

I really appreciated your whole post, but I wanted to pick out this part in particular to discuss. Maybe what the author is asking for isn't realistic, but that doesn't mean she can't still want it, right? That's how a lot of feminism and anti-sexism goes, you challenge people to do than is reasonably expected, but hopeful some rise to the challenge, right?

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Honestly, I think the author of this article is extremely naive.  Firstly, if you don't want your pictures to be used in a sexual manner let's start with the basics......Don't post them on the internet, then there will be no worry about whether the pictures are being used as a means of objectification.  Secondly, I agree with a few of the previous posters who stated that you cannot tell anyone how they choose to relate sexually to things they encounter in their daily lives, be it in person or on the internet so long as they do not try to impose their desires on unwilling participants.  Thirdly, I think most women who post pictures on the internet do so with a desire to be objectified.  Basically, the desire to be noticed and/or complimented for how you look is a form of desiring objectification.  For some reason some women don't get this point.  It is okay for a women not to like the idea of being objectified, but too many want to have too much control.  They want to hide behind the guise of just posting pictures but when they get some responses they don't like, friends or family members find out and object or they realize that posting certain types of pictures may affect future employment opportunities they want to call foul.  And as far as the whole fat fetish and the extremes she mentions with people either loathing or worshipping the fat body asthetic.  It's all part of the human condition.  One man's dross is another man's treasure. 

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Honestly, I think the author of this article is extremely naive.  Firstly, if you don't want your pictures to be used in a sexual manner let's start with the basics......Don't post them on the internet, then there will be no worry about whether the pictures are being used as a means of objectification.  Secondly, I agree with a few of the previous posters who stated that you cannot tell anyone how they choose to relate sexually to things they encounter in their daily lives, be it in person or on the internet so long as they do not try to impose their desires on unwilling participants.  Thirdly, I think most women who post pictures on the internet do so with a desire to be objectified.  Basically, the desire to be noticed and/or complimented for how you look is a form of desiring objectification.  For some reason some women don't get this point.  It is okay for a women not to like the idea of being objectified, but too many want to have too much control.  They want to hide behind the guise of just posting pictures but when they get some responses they don't like, friends or family members find out and object or they realize that posting certain types of pictures may affect future employment opportunities they want to call foul.  And as far as the whole fat fetish and the extremes she mentions with people either loathing or worshipping the fat body asthetic.  It's all part of the human condition.  One man's dross is another man's treasure. 

The author wasn't discussing pictures on the internet though. i brought that up because it relates to this board. Also, to your point "I think most women who post pictures on the internet do so with a desire to be objectified."

... I really don't think that is true. On this forum, sure, objectification is kind of a given, but in general, no.

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The author wasn't discussing pictures on the internet though. i brought that up because it relates to this board. Also, to your point "I think most women who post pictures on the internet do so with a desire to be objectified."

... I really don't think that is true. On this forum, sure, objectification is kind of a given, but in general, no.

So you can't say you've ever posted a picture to gain attention or compliments of how you look? You can't say that other women, especially on Facebook aren't looking to be somewhat, even the smallest bit, complimented and fawned over in some slight manner that may involved sexual thinking? That would be naive on your part to believe that there is no woman who doesn't post her pics to be objectified even if to the smallest degree, if only JUST to get compliments.

This isn't just sexual objectification, but it is a form of objectification. There is a difference. But either way, objectification does happen, and honestly, you cannot tell me that every person doesn't wish to be found sexy or desireable by someone? Again, if you don't think so, you would be lying. There is a small amount of objectification that happens whether or not you care to think that it does. What ultimately matters is how you act upon your feelings once you realize what's going on. You can think whatever you want, but ultimately what you do is the part that counts.

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Too many men don't quite understand the problem with objectification. "I wouldn't mind it if women were constantly giving me attention," they claim. On the other hand, a lot of guys seem to suddenly "get it" when you ask them how they would feel if they were constantly getting comments and unwanted attention from other men.

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Too many men don't quite understand the problem with objectification. "I wouldn't mind it if women were constantly giving me attention," they claim. On the other hand, a lot of guys seem to suddenly "get it" when you ask them how they would feel if they were constantly getting comments and unwanted attention from other men.

this is no where near the same thing

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Too many men don't quite understand the problem with objectification. "I wouldn't mind it if women were constantly giving me attention," they claim. On the other hand, a lot of guys seem to suddenly "get it" when you ask them how they would feel if they were constantly getting comments and unwanted attention from other men.

I think a better analogy would be this:

Imagine if all the money you made was placed on the outside of you body for all women to see, and you happened to be super rich. At first you'd have a bunch of ladies coming up to you and wanting to date you and you think that's awesome! Who doesn't want that sort of affection? So you start to go on dates. But soon thereafter you only realize these women are only interested in you because of your money and not who you are. As soon as you start getting more personable with them, they leave. You start noticing more women only liking you because you have money, thus also the only reason they want to have sex with you. You don't want to have all this money showing because you want women to get to know you for you, but the money is attached to every piece of clothes you own and you can't take it off.

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Because bodies themselves should not be fetishes

This seems to be the main point of the article. The false assumption is that a fetish is not innate.

Her argument is essentially the same as saying, 'I don't like you because you enjoy chocolate'.

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This seems to be the main point of the article. The false assumption is that a fetish is not innate.

Her argument is essentially the same as saying, 'I don't like you because you enjoy chocolate'.

Her argument is doubly false. Bodies themselves cannot be fetishes since the latter involve "erotic or sexual significance being projected onto some (ordinarily!) nonsexual inanimate object" (http://www.joekort.com/fetish.htm). A fat woman can't be "degraded as a fetish object", any more than you can "fetishise Black women with natural hair". You can, however, be exclusively and obsessively attracted to fat women, and be aroused by weight gain, but if that's the way you are, that's the way you are.

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People can and do fetishize the fat, or the gaining of it, or the numbers involved in measurement, what have you, to the exclusion of the woman as a whole. Maybe no one here in this thread does it, but it happens, on any form of fat fetish community.

To Ayumi's point, I think you're defining objectification VERY broadly there. Not every compliment is objectification, not even every sexual compliment is objectification. If you take a look at the body positivity tags on tumblr, there are lots of pictures of ladies showing off their bodies for support, and the comments are like "You look great!" or "Damn girl, you look nice!" or "I like your hair." Then some troll comes along and posts something like "Yeah babby jiggle that lard, unf, fat pig oink" and EVERYTHING IS RUINED.

My whole argument is that so many people operate as if other people are there just to please them, and they ignore any context or reality about whether that person wants that kind of "attention", and it's gross. Look, I know this forum is pretty good about this sort of thing, I'm not condemning anyone, I'm just saying it exists in our community at large so it at least concerns us. I know it won't ever go away, but to use that as a reason to not discuss it is defeatist.

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Who would deny anyone the right to think what she/he/it wants or just does and who with a sane mind thinks she/he/it has a right to decide what others may fantasize about? A bad own body image will not get better by dictating what others may or may not think about one's body. Though I'm not a fan of guys telling girls they are in any way obliged to please anybody but themselves. But even those guys are totally free in their fantasies and thoughts.

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Kast, I completely agree that people sometimes treat others as things to be used, and not as human beings, and that sickens me. However, I don't think it happens anymore in this community than it does in any other community or facet of life. I also believe you've hitched your wagon to the wrong horse here, the author of that piece is clearly a self-hating prude. I'm far too lazy to go back for exact quotes, but this piece was a horrible exercise in anger and self hate from someone with a very twisted and sad world view. It was nothing more, nothing less.

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People can and do fetishize the fat, or the gaining of it, or the numbers involved in measurement, what have you, to the exclusion of the woman as a whole. Maybe no one here in this thread does it, but it happens, on any form of fat fetish community.

Of course they do, but the woman's body is a sexual object, so the body itself is not a fetish, but rather their obsession with fat and weight gain. Although bodies cannot be fetishes, they obviously are objects of sexual fantasies, and there's nothing the author can do about that.

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